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Be sure to read the last paragraph before you start inventing stories about Southern Irish Catholics "bombing" the Protestant population in the south out of their homes!
Source: Anglican media.
http://www.anglicanm...ives/001909.php
July 18, 2003
Anglican and Presbyterian numbers leap in Ireland - ENI
The Anglican and Presbyterian churches in the Republic of Ireland have recorded their first increases in support since at least 1881, according to a government census.
Full Story:
By Cedric Pulford
London, 17 July (ENI)--The Anglican and Presbyterian churches in the Republic of Ireland have recorded their first increases in support since at least 1881, according to a government census.
Over the past decade, the (Anglican) Church of Ireland grew by 30 per cent, to 115 611, and Presbyterians leapt by 56 per cent, to 20 582. Both figures, disclosed in the 2002 Irish national census published this year, easily outstripped population growth.
"Some of the growth we believe is from Roman Catholics converting to Anglicanism," Brian Parker, spokesman for the Church of Ireland, told ENI.
"Paedophile scandals have had an effect among Catholics, and some, particularly young people, feel a general discontent at the conservative edge of the [Catholic] leadership."
Parker said the Anglican membership figures had benefited from a new census entry, "Church of Ireland/Protestant", which included Protestants without a denominational allegiance.
The Central Statistics Office in Dublin says immigration is an important factor in the growth of the main Protestant faiths.
Throughout the 1990s Ireland enjoyed one of the European Union's most buoyant economies and was known as the "Celtic Tiger".
The London-based Church Times newspaper quoted a call by the Anglican Archbishop of Dublin, John Neill, for greater efforts by Irish Anglicans to welcome newcomers.
Stephen Lynas, spokesperson for the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, said the church's growth was mainly due to the arrival of asylum-seekers, particularly from West Africa and Asian countries.
"Congregations say they have greatly enriched worship," he told ENI.
Ireland - excluding six counties in the north, which are part of the United Kingdom - remains an overwhelmingly Roman Catholic country.
But support for Catholicism has slipped from 91.6 per cent of the population in the 1991 census to 88.4 per cent in 2002. Ireland has a population of about 3.6 million.
Brenda Drumm of the Catholic Communications Office said the church did not comment on the census results.
Both the Church of Ireland and the Presbyterian Church in Ireland have most of their support in the six northern counties, which became Northern Ireland in 1922 when the rest of the country achieved independence from Britain.
Census returns show that the previous decline - now reversed - of the two main Protestant denominations in the mainly Catholic south had begun decades before independence.
The Truth about the Republic's Protestant Population
MultiQuote#2
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Posted 15 August 2003 - 07:45 PM
>Census returns show that the previous decline - now reversed - of the two >main Protestant denominations in the mainly Catholic south had begun >decades before independence.
And what? How does that change anything. It merely show that the process accelerated after partition. The slughter of Protestants id well documents from the 1600`s, like the Sculklabogue massacrs, the Defenders, thrashers ect and then Sinn Fein / IRA.
I have yet to see an explanation for the decline or any proof that these stories were invented.
And what? How does that change anything. It merely show that the process accelerated after partition. The slughter of Protestants id well documents from the 1600`s, like the Sculklabogue massacrs, the Defenders, thrashers ect and then Sinn Fein / IRA.
I have yet to see an explanation for the decline or any proof that these stories were invented.
#3
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Posted 16 August 2003 - 12:13 PM
>>And what? How does that change anything. It merely show that the process accelerated after partition. The slughter of Protestants id well documents from the 1600`s, like the Sculklabogue massacrs, the Defenders, thrashers ect and then Sinn Fein / IRA.
Right?
A decine since 1881. In 1850, there were 200,000 British troops stationed in Ireland and 4 million Irish people starved to death or left Ireland in the space of 3 years. This was only the begining, today America has an Irish-American population of around 50 million, not to mention the tens of milions of Irish in Britain, Australia, South Africa, Argentina etc, etc. So, what your saying is that the Irish allowed themselves to be starved to death, yet some how found the strenght to "slughter" thousands of Protestants, most of whom were on there side anyway. This doesn't make any sense, sorry.
You are aware that the Protestant population has decined in Northern Ireland also, despite the fact that some people on this site claim that N. Ireland became a haven for Protestants who were herded out of the south. You'd think the Protestant population would have increased in the 1920's and 1930's if this was the case, yet it most certainly did not.
Right?
A decine since 1881. In 1850, there were 200,000 British troops stationed in Ireland and 4 million Irish people starved to death or left Ireland in the space of 3 years. This was only the begining, today America has an Irish-American population of around 50 million, not to mention the tens of milions of Irish in Britain, Australia, South Africa, Argentina etc, etc. So, what your saying is that the Irish allowed themselves to be starved to death, yet some how found the strenght to "slughter" thousands of Protestants, most of whom were on there side anyway. This doesn't make any sense, sorry.
You are aware that the Protestant population has decined in Northern Ireland also, despite the fact that some people on this site claim that N. Ireland became a haven for Protestants who were herded out of the south. You'd think the Protestant population would have increased in the 1920's and 1930's if this was the case, yet it most certainly did not.
#4
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Posted 16 August 2003 - 06:19 PM
It did increase. The % population has decreased not the numbers. This is due to higher catholic birth rates. The Protestant population is still growing, albeit very slowly, due to the 2.1 average children per family.
Also many emigrated or went to the UK mainland rather than Northern Ireland. Ireleand, including Northern Ireland is largely rural and as such will always hemoraege talent to larger cities, particularly London, Liverpool and Glasgow, although Belfast and Dublin have picked up in recent decades too.
Also many emigrated or went to the UK mainland rather than Northern Ireland. Ireleand, including Northern Ireland is largely rural and as such will always hemoraege talent to larger cities, particularly London, Liverpool and Glasgow, although Belfast and Dublin have picked up in recent decades too.
#5
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Posted 16 August 2003 - 09:10 PM
Belfast Newsletter
16 Aug 2003
http://www.icnorthernireland.co.uk
Congregation in South soars
by Billy Kennedy
THE Church of Ireland population in the Republic of Ireland has shown a remarkable increase in the past decade.
Church membership numbers in the South have risen to 115,611, an increase of 29.6 per cent on the 1991 figures of 89,187.
The other Protestant denominations in the Republic report an increase in membership, but the Church of Ireland returns are the most significant.
However, the Republic's Protestant ratio is still just under five per cent of the overall population in the country, which, although it is becoming more pluralistic, continues to have a dominant Roman Catholic ethos.
Dublin now has 33,857 Church of Ireland worshippers, compared with 25,977 a decade ago, and Cork, 12,699 up from 9,656 in 1991.
In Wicklow, there are 8,167 Church of Ireland members, an increase of 1,194, and even in the more isolated western Con-nacht counties there has been an upturn from 5,837 to 9,773 in 10 years, with Galway, Mayo and Roscommon all reporting a more than 100 per cent increase.
Co Clare shows a 136.7 per cent, increase in Church of Ireland membership, from 771 to 1,825.
In the three Ulster counties in the Republic, where Presbyterian Church membership is much stronger, the Church of Ireland numbers have declined from 11,904 to a present, figure of 11,778 (Donegal 6,308, Cavan 3,767 and Monaghan 1,703).
The large influx of immigrants and asylum seekers to the Republic from eastern Europe, Africa and Asia has considerably boosted the Protestant population in the Republic, with the smaller Reformed denominations also benefitting to a degree.
The Irish Presbyterian Church has a total membership in the South of 15,000. with about 4,500 in the Dublin area; 4,200 in Co Donegal and Cavan-Monaghan almost 3,000, and the Methodist Church numbers approximately 5,000.
16 Aug 2003
http://www.icnorthernireland.co.uk
Congregation in South soars
by Billy Kennedy
THE Church of Ireland population in the Republic of Ireland has shown a remarkable increase in the past decade.
Church membership numbers in the South have risen to 115,611, an increase of 29.6 per cent on the 1991 figures of 89,187.
The other Protestant denominations in the Republic report an increase in membership, but the Church of Ireland returns are the most significant.
However, the Republic's Protestant ratio is still just under five per cent of the overall population in the country, which, although it is becoming more pluralistic, continues to have a dominant Roman Catholic ethos.
Dublin now has 33,857 Church of Ireland worshippers, compared with 25,977 a decade ago, and Cork, 12,699 up from 9,656 in 1991.
In Wicklow, there are 8,167 Church of Ireland members, an increase of 1,194, and even in the more isolated western Con-nacht counties there has been an upturn from 5,837 to 9,773 in 10 years, with Galway, Mayo and Roscommon all reporting a more than 100 per cent increase.
Co Clare shows a 136.7 per cent, increase in Church of Ireland membership, from 771 to 1,825.
In the three Ulster counties in the Republic, where Presbyterian Church membership is much stronger, the Church of Ireland numbers have declined from 11,904 to a present, figure of 11,778 (Donegal 6,308, Cavan 3,767 and Monaghan 1,703).
The large influx of immigrants and asylum seekers to the Republic from eastern Europe, Africa and Asia has considerably boosted the Protestant population in the Republic, with the smaller Reformed denominations also benefitting to a degree.
The Irish Presbyterian Church has a total membership in the South of 15,000. with about 4,500 in the Dublin area; 4,200 in Co Donegal and Cavan-Monaghan almost 3,000, and the Methodist Church numbers approximately 5,000.
My Space
http://www.myspace.com/kilsally
Faugh A Ballagh
Lámh Dhearg Abú
Tha Hamely Tongue:-
Houl yer whisht - keep quiet / don`t butt in
Ye hallion - you tearaway
Skreigh o day - crack of dawn / day
Scundered - fed up
http://www.myspace.com/kilsally
Faugh A Ballagh
Lámh Dhearg Abú
Tha Hamely Tongue:-
Houl yer whisht - keep quiet / don`t butt in
Ye hallion - you tearaway
Skreigh o day - crack of dawn / day
Scundered - fed up
#6
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Posted 18 August 2003 - 05:23 PM
http://www.unison.ie...3&issue_id=9663
Irish Independent
18 Aug 2003
Protestants 'wiped from culture'
NORTHERN Protestants suffer the same social and historical exclusion as refugees and asylum seekers in the Republic, Glencree Summer School in Wicklow heard over the weekend.
Shockingly, Protestants have been "air brushed" from the Republic'sculture as though they never existed- and a visit to any museum here will underline the point graphically,Frankie Gallagher of Ulster Policy Research Group told the school.
Rarely, if ever, will an exhibit show over 1m Protestants live on this island, with little to illustrate the common if parallel histories of the peoples living on it, said Mr Gallagher. This "exclusion" reinforced North Protestants' siege mentality and although the cultural deficits of museums here might be minor in the scale of the Northern question and unintentional by curators, it did little to ease the paranoia and defensiveness with which Protestants there viewed the Republic.
"We have a responsibility to live together on this island - yet we ignore our common history and culture," Mr Gallagher declared.
"There will be no solutions until these barriers are broken down."
The delegates, who included PUP deputy leader David Rose, Sinn Fein politicians Sean Crowe and Marylou McDonald and Alliance Party and Women's Coalition chairwomen Jane Dunlop and Betty Gibben, heard papers from former Israeli political negotiator during the Begin regime Moty Cristal on sustainable negotiation, and from Mary Jane Collier, professor of communications at Denver University, Colorado on creating a "third space" for conflict resolution.
Northern delegates rejected a 'demographic endgame' to the Irish question whereby a united Ireland would follow once Catholics there had reached 51pc of the North's population.
Ken Whelan
Irish Independent
18 Aug 2003
Protestants 'wiped from culture'
NORTHERN Protestants suffer the same social and historical exclusion as refugees and asylum seekers in the Republic, Glencree Summer School in Wicklow heard over the weekend.
Shockingly, Protestants have been "air brushed" from the Republic'sculture as though they never existed- and a visit to any museum here will underline the point graphically,Frankie Gallagher of Ulster Policy Research Group told the school.
Rarely, if ever, will an exhibit show over 1m Protestants live on this island, with little to illustrate the common if parallel histories of the peoples living on it, said Mr Gallagher. This "exclusion" reinforced North Protestants' siege mentality and although the cultural deficits of museums here might be minor in the scale of the Northern question and unintentional by curators, it did little to ease the paranoia and defensiveness with which Protestants there viewed the Republic.
"We have a responsibility to live together on this island - yet we ignore our common history and culture," Mr Gallagher declared.
"There will be no solutions until these barriers are broken down."
The delegates, who included PUP deputy leader David Rose, Sinn Fein politicians Sean Crowe and Marylou McDonald and Alliance Party and Women's Coalition chairwomen Jane Dunlop and Betty Gibben, heard papers from former Israeli political negotiator during the Begin regime Moty Cristal on sustainable negotiation, and from Mary Jane Collier, professor of communications at Denver University, Colorado on creating a "third space" for conflict resolution.
Northern delegates rejected a 'demographic endgame' to the Irish question whereby a united Ireland would follow once Catholics there had reached 51pc of the North's population.
Ken Whelan
#7
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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:21 PM
Londonderry Journal
Protestants' Cityside 'Exodus' Biggest Since WWII
Aug 22 2003
An article in the latest edition of the "Orange Standard" - the official newspaper of the organisation - claims that some 18,000 Protestants have abandoned Derry's cityside in the past 35 years.
The article, headlined "Protestants keep flag flying in Londonderry", is written by an "Orange Standard" correspondent who says he/she recently toured Protestants areas of Derry - including the Fountain.
The "brave" Protestant people of the Fountain, begins the article, are a "beleaguered" community all too often forgotten by their "co-religionists" across the North.
In spite of this, however, relates the author, Fountain Protestants continue to "witness for their faith and for their allegiance to the Union".
The article continues: "My visit confirmed what I have been told by many people who know Londonderry and its people really well --namely that it is nothing short of astounding that the Protestant people [of the Fountain], probably around 1,000 in number, have been able to maintain a presence on the cityside surrounded by some 60,000 Roman Catholics and nationalists."
The article says that people "living in 'safe' areas like North Down" can have "little conception of just what it is like for Protestants to have to exist in a city like Londonderry."
"In Bangor, Newtownards, Comber, Holywood and other places, people go about their business each day, free of the fear of thugs attacking them, and especially their children, for no other reason than the fact that they are Protestants.
"That is the all too familiar experience of Protestants living in the Fountain, the last remaining loyalist enclave in Londonderry's west bank. Most of the Protestants have left the cityside - some 18,000 of them since 1968 - and they left without headlines... in an exodus which took them to the estates of the Waterside, to towns like Limavady and Coleraine, and even further afield.
"Television cameras were not there to record this exodus, one of the most profound since the Second World War, and this still rankles with Protestants in the North West."
This, says the "Orange Standard" article, is in stark contrast to the "well-oiled propaganda machine of nationalists and republicans" which highlights "every grievance, real or imagined, experienced by their community and blasts it across headlines."
The author adds: "Protestants do not object to stories being publicised about Roman Catholics being attacked, but they certainly feel that reporters are not nearly as keen to record their stories - stories which happen on a regular basis in Londonderry."
Protestants in the Fountain, continues the article, have come to dread events such as 'Old Firm' football matches between Rangers and Celtic.
http://icderry.icnet...-name_page.html
Protestants' Cityside 'Exodus' Biggest Since WWII
Aug 22 2003
An article in the latest edition of the "Orange Standard" - the official newspaper of the organisation - claims that some 18,000 Protestants have abandoned Derry's cityside in the past 35 years.
The article, headlined "Protestants keep flag flying in Londonderry", is written by an "Orange Standard" correspondent who says he/she recently toured Protestants areas of Derry - including the Fountain.
The "brave" Protestant people of the Fountain, begins the article, are a "beleaguered" community all too often forgotten by their "co-religionists" across the North.
In spite of this, however, relates the author, Fountain Protestants continue to "witness for their faith and for their allegiance to the Union".
The article continues: "My visit confirmed what I have been told by many people who know Londonderry and its people really well --namely that it is nothing short of astounding that the Protestant people [of the Fountain], probably around 1,000 in number, have been able to maintain a presence on the cityside surrounded by some 60,000 Roman Catholics and nationalists."
The article says that people "living in 'safe' areas like North Down" can have "little conception of just what it is like for Protestants to have to exist in a city like Londonderry."
"In Bangor, Newtownards, Comber, Holywood and other places, people go about their business each day, free of the fear of thugs attacking them, and especially their children, for no other reason than the fact that they are Protestants.
"That is the all too familiar experience of Protestants living in the Fountain, the last remaining loyalist enclave in Londonderry's west bank. Most of the Protestants have left the cityside - some 18,000 of them since 1968 - and they left without headlines... in an exodus which took them to the estates of the Waterside, to towns like Limavady and Coleraine, and even further afield.
"Television cameras were not there to record this exodus, one of the most profound since the Second World War, and this still rankles with Protestants in the North West."
This, says the "Orange Standard" article, is in stark contrast to the "well-oiled propaganda machine of nationalists and republicans" which highlights "every grievance, real or imagined, experienced by their community and blasts it across headlines."
The author adds: "Protestants do not object to stories being publicised about Roman Catholics being attacked, but they certainly feel that reporters are not nearly as keen to record their stories - stories which happen on a regular basis in Londonderry."
Protestants in the Fountain, continues the article, have come to dread events such as 'Old Firm' football matches between Rangers and Celtic.
http://icderry.icnet...-name_page.html
#8
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Posted 25 August 2003 - 10:59 AM
Protestants have not been wiped from Irish history - that is just plain ridiculous. Look at the street names in Dublin - Grafton St, Parnell St, Wolfe Tone Quay - all Protestant men, and all regarded as Irish heroes. One of the main theaters here in Donegal is named after Isaac Butt. Yeats, a Protestant, is regarded as Ireland's greatest poet, and I learned many of his poems at school here in the Republic. One of the buildings in the college I attended was named after Robert Boyle - a Protestant scientist, another of the buildings was named after Lord Rosse of Birr Co. Offaly. There is a monument in Banager Co. Offaly for the Bronte sisters whose father hailed from the town, and who was again a Protestant.
#9
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Posted 25 August 2003 - 03:02 PM
As a northern Protestant I would attest that attitudes have and continue to change on both sides of the border. No longer is the South a wholly Catholic state for a catholic people and neither is Northern Ireland a Protestant state for a Protestant people, but it is only in the last decade that these big changes have happened and are only becoming evident now. The process of change must continue. The reform movements aims of non-denominational schooling and health care in the south are a must to put all ethnic minorites at easy, protestants, jews and muslims.
#10
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Posted 26 August 2003 - 06:58 PM
Good post Ulsterman II. While I have my reservations about some of the reform movements ideals, the seperation of church and state must be total in the South.
What is in your hand?
A Branch.
Of What?
Of the Tree of Liberty.
Where did it first grow?
In America.
Where does it bloom?
In France.
Where did the seed fall?
In Ireland.
When shall the moon be full?
When the four quarters meet.
A Branch.
Of What?
Of the Tree of Liberty.
Where did it first grow?
In America.
Where does it bloom?
In France.
Where did the seed fall?
In Ireland.
When shall the moon be full?
When the four quarters meet.
#11
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Posted 11 October 2003 - 03:41 PM
Belfast Telegraph
Open door on Partition
History of turmoil in border communities
By Ciaran O'Neill
coneill@belfasttelegraph.co.uk
01 October 2003
A new study is to be carried out into the impact Partition of Ireland had on the Protestant community in the North West.
The division of Ireland in 1921, and the subsequent creation of the Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland states, resulted in particularly major upheaval for people living in border areas.
Among those most affected were Protestant communities in Londonderry, Donegal and Tyrone.
And now a local group plans to publish a booklet highlighting the stories of people who lived in the North West through one of the most turbulent periods in Irish history.
The booklet, entitled Partition and Protestants, will be co-ordinated by Derry & Raphoe Action, an organisation set up in 1997 to encourage Protestants in Londonderry, Tyrone and Donegal to raise awareness of their culture and encourage others to participate more in their communities.
Funding for the new publication has been secured from the European Union.
DRA development officer Derek Reaney said he was delighted that the booklet was to be published.
"It is important that these stories of Protestant people who lived through partition are told," he said. "No project of this type has ever been carried out before.
"Anyone who was alive at the time will, obviously, be quite elderly now and we believe it is important to get their stories down in print.
"There will be negative and positive stories but we plan to have a balanced view of this time."
Research on the booklet will begin in the new year and it is expected to be published next summer.
The project is one of a number of initiatives which DRA is involved in the North West.
The group also organises a cultural roadshow, called What Makes A Protestant Tick?, which aims to raise awareness among other communities of the Protestant culture.
Anyone who was alive at the time will be quite elderly and it is important to get stories down in print'
- Derek Reaney
http://www.belfastte...sp?story=448740
Open door on Partition
History of turmoil in border communities
By Ciaran O'Neill
coneill@belfasttelegraph.co.uk
01 October 2003
A new study is to be carried out into the impact Partition of Ireland had on the Protestant community in the North West.
The division of Ireland in 1921, and the subsequent creation of the Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland states, resulted in particularly major upheaval for people living in border areas.
Among those most affected were Protestant communities in Londonderry, Donegal and Tyrone.
And now a local group plans to publish a booklet highlighting the stories of people who lived in the North West through one of the most turbulent periods in Irish history.
The booklet, entitled Partition and Protestants, will be co-ordinated by Derry & Raphoe Action, an organisation set up in 1997 to encourage Protestants in Londonderry, Tyrone and Donegal to raise awareness of their culture and encourage others to participate more in their communities.
Funding for the new publication has been secured from the European Union.
DRA development officer Derek Reaney said he was delighted that the booklet was to be published.
"It is important that these stories of Protestant people who lived through partition are told," he said. "No project of this type has ever been carried out before.
"Anyone who was alive at the time will, obviously, be quite elderly now and we believe it is important to get their stories down in print.
"There will be negative and positive stories but we plan to have a balanced view of this time."
Research on the booklet will begin in the new year and it is expected to be published next summer.
The project is one of a number of initiatives which DRA is involved in the North West.
The group also organises a cultural roadshow, called What Makes A Protestant Tick?, which aims to raise awareness among other communities of the Protestant culture.
Anyone who was alive at the time will be quite elderly and it is important to get stories down in print'
- Derek Reaney
http://www.belfastte...sp?story=448740
#12
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Posted 11 October 2003 - 06:33 PM
Polarised Protestants Isolated In West Bank Oct 10 2003
http://icnorthernire...-name_page.html
By Iian Starrett
A LEADING Londonderry churchman yesterday claimed that the city's west bank Protestants now feel more isolated than ever.
Dean William Morton, of St Columb's Church of Ireland Cathedral, claimed that the decision to re-locate Foyle and Londonderry College in the Waterside, will only add to the polarisation of the city.
He said that it would do little to encourage Protestants to return to live on the west bank of the River Foyle, where the vast majority of the population come from the nationalist community.
"It has created a negative image of the city," he said.
The move, announced on Wednesday by Education Minister Jane Kennedy, will end a College association with the cityside of the River Foyle that has been in existence since 1617, a time when the building of Derry's Walls was also taking place.
Dean Morton, whose son attends Foyle and Londonderry College, the last secondary level state school on the west bank, said: "In terms of the future of the city, it is regrettable that people are shortsighted, to the extent that they think that simply moving out is going to be the answer.
"It is going to come across to a lot of people as moving out again, as an exodus from the cityside, across to the Waterside.
"While educationists may argue about it being entirely an educational issue, nevertheless, it is going to be seen in much wider terms and will have wider implications."
Gregory Campbell, Waterside DUP councillor, said yesterday, "realistically there was little other option than to move" the College to the Waterside.
But he said that, in the wider environment, the nationalist community locally should now ask: "Why is it that the city of Londonderry is so structured, whether ethnically, religiously, economically, or politically, that the unionist community, by and large, do not feel intrinsically a part of that city?'
"The wider issue is here and must be addressed by the nationalist community.
"They have got to try and understand and get to grips with what sort of environment they are creating, beyond the educational issue."
Retired teacher Ian Mc-Cracken said he was sad that the College would be moving away from its west bank site.
But John Arthur, chairman of the College's Board of Governors, defended the decision.
"Ninety per cent of our pupils live in the Waterside," he said.
i.starrett@lineone.net
http://icnorthernire...-name_page.html
By Iian Starrett
A LEADING Londonderry churchman yesterday claimed that the city's west bank Protestants now feel more isolated than ever.
Dean William Morton, of St Columb's Church of Ireland Cathedral, claimed that the decision to re-locate Foyle and Londonderry College in the Waterside, will only add to the polarisation of the city.
He said that it would do little to encourage Protestants to return to live on the west bank of the River Foyle, where the vast majority of the population come from the nationalist community.
"It has created a negative image of the city," he said.
The move, announced on Wednesday by Education Minister Jane Kennedy, will end a College association with the cityside of the River Foyle that has been in existence since 1617, a time when the building of Derry's Walls was also taking place.
Dean Morton, whose son attends Foyle and Londonderry College, the last secondary level state school on the west bank, said: "In terms of the future of the city, it is regrettable that people are shortsighted, to the extent that they think that simply moving out is going to be the answer.
"It is going to come across to a lot of people as moving out again, as an exodus from the cityside, across to the Waterside.
"While educationists may argue about it being entirely an educational issue, nevertheless, it is going to be seen in much wider terms and will have wider implications."
Gregory Campbell, Waterside DUP councillor, said yesterday, "realistically there was little other option than to move" the College to the Waterside.
But he said that, in the wider environment, the nationalist community locally should now ask: "Why is it that the city of Londonderry is so structured, whether ethnically, religiously, economically, or politically, that the unionist community, by and large, do not feel intrinsically a part of that city?'
"The wider issue is here and must be addressed by the nationalist community.
"They have got to try and understand and get to grips with what sort of environment they are creating, beyond the educational issue."
Retired teacher Ian Mc-Cracken said he was sad that the College would be moving away from its west bank site.
But John Arthur, chairman of the College's Board of Governors, defended the decision.
"Ninety per cent of our pupils live in the Waterside," he said.
i.starrett@lineone.net
#13
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Posted 13 October 2003 - 04:54 AM
If you think these numbers are correct then tell me this. Why did the records for the Ross-shire people in the Highlands stay the same during the famine when it is plain to see that records showing their departure painted a different picture. The same was true for the Clearances.
You cannot have that high of brithrate in either situation. I suggest you do some more research because you are missing something. Read Peter Hart's book besides. It is based on large part of the writings of people who went through the experiences.
You cannot have that high of brithrate in either situation. I suggest you do some more research because you are missing something. Read Peter Hart's book besides. It is based on large part of the writings of people who went through the experiences.
#14
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Posted 13 October 2003 - 09:05 AM
Protestants are well remembered in Irish culture and history.To say otherwise is complete nonsense.Have you never heard of Wolfetone,W.B. Yeats,Sam Maguire,and numerous other politicians and writers.One of the biggest events in Irish sporting culture is the raising of the Sam Maguire cup,named in honour of a Protestant republican.
Ulster Gael.
Ulster Gael.
#16
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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:56 PM
Newsletter
16 Oct 2003
http://www.icnorthernireland.co.uk
'Shameful' Protestant exodus
A LEADING Londonderry republican has branded the drift of thousands of Protestants from the west bank of the River Foyle as a "national scandal".
Terry Harkin, spokesman in the city for the IRSP( Irish Republican Socialist Party ) spoke out for the first time since it was announced by Education Minister Jane Kennedy that Foyle and Londonderry College will be relocating in the Waterside.
The move of the last, second level state school from its present site at Duncreggan is being seen by many as yet another symbolic sign of the disappearance of Protestants from west bank life and culture.
Mr Harkin said that this brings shame on the city and that the decision for Foyle and Londonderry College to "up sticks" and go to the Waterside was the fault of Assembly politicians.
"This is all down to the Good Friday Agreement. This has copper-fastened sectarianism in our community," he said.
He also hit out at recent stoning and petrol-bomb attacks on the Fountain estate, the last loyalist enclave on the west bank of the River Foyle.
The Foyle and Londonderry College move to the Waterside has been defended by its principal Jack Magill, who said the move is a "simple financial necessity".
16 Oct 2003
http://www.icnorthernireland.co.uk
'Shameful' Protestant exodus
A LEADING Londonderry republican has branded the drift of thousands of Protestants from the west bank of the River Foyle as a "national scandal".
Terry Harkin, spokesman in the city for the IRSP( Irish Republican Socialist Party ) spoke out for the first time since it was announced by Education Minister Jane Kennedy that Foyle and Londonderry College will be relocating in the Waterside.
The move of the last, second level state school from its present site at Duncreggan is being seen by many as yet another symbolic sign of the disappearance of Protestants from west bank life and culture.
Mr Harkin said that this brings shame on the city and that the decision for Foyle and Londonderry College to "up sticks" and go to the Waterside was the fault of Assembly politicians.
"This is all down to the Good Friday Agreement. This has copper-fastened sectarianism in our community," he said.
He also hit out at recent stoning and petrol-bomb attacks on the Fountain estate, the last loyalist enclave on the west bank of the River Foyle.
The Foyle and Londonderry College move to the Waterside has been defended by its principal Jack Magill, who said the move is a "simple financial necessity".
#17
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Posted 06 January 2004 - 12:53 AM
Discrimination Republic Style - Part Two
The history of the dispute
Anti-Protestant discrimination faced by some of the few Protestants left on the Southern side of the Irish border - names changed to protect identities...
Mr X, and my family reside on a three acre piece of property that has been in my family since the 1800's. My site was transferred to me by my father in 1970, the documentation (folio reference 300F, from folio 1382) being complete in 1972. Included with the property is a laneway, my sole means of access.
No stranger to sectarian violence. A Free Presbyterian Minister stands outside his burned down church.
In 1987, an accidental fire burnt gutted our house. We therefore applied for planning permission through Sean Wash, T.D., who was chairman of the County Council at the time. He failed, however, to gain planning permission for us, yet six months later a new neighbour came to the area, and had absolutely no difficulty in successfully gaining planning permission to build a bungalow forty yards away from us. At this time, Councillor Jim Barry was quoted as saying, "Mr X will never get planning permission in this area ever again!" Perceiving this to be blatant discrimination against a small Protestant Community, we contacted Taoiseach Charles Haughey who ensured that we obtained planning permission without further problems on a section 4 motion. I would like to say that our planning permission problems had no effect on our relationship with our new neighbours. In fact, we were very civil to each other and I gladly gave them use of my water while they were building their house. While they were building, Kieran and I had a verbal agreement that they could use my laneway to gain access to their property until they had finished building. After this, they would use their own entrance.
In 1990, after neighbours had finished building their house, and a year had expired, they began to be very abusive and arrogant claiming to own my laneway, and they ordered me off my property. Then followed a number of disturbances which included the following:
* Telephone lines were tampered with.. This can be confirmed by Councillor Breda Cass.
* Bank Statements and personal letters were steamed open and pushed through the letterbox crumpled and torn. This can be confirmed by the Gardai in Rathcoole and by the Bank of Ireland manager in Ratheoole, Paddy Ryan.
* Intimidating behaviour began such as cars screeching into our driveway at 3am with accompanying shouts of abuse. This was reported to the Gardai on a 999 call.
* Cars were used to block our access to and from church.
* Shots were fired over our house on a number of occasions; on one of them, my aerial was shot down. This was reported to the Gardai.
* Death threats were made concerning me and my family. These threats were recorded and are currently with the Gardai.
We would also like to point out here that my brother has also been a victim of violence in that his hay barn, house, car and mobile home was mysteriously burnt to the ground and told to get out of Brittas. (Telephone Call ).
Details of this are with the Gardai and Fire Department.
The history of the dispute
Anti-Protestant discrimination faced by some of the few Protestants left on the Southern side of the Irish border - names changed to protect identities...
Mr X, and my family reside on a three acre piece of property that has been in my family since the 1800's. My site was transferred to me by my father in 1970, the documentation (folio reference 300F, from folio 1382) being complete in 1972. Included with the property is a laneway, my sole means of access.
No stranger to sectarian violence. A Free Presbyterian Minister stands outside his burned down church.
In 1987, an accidental fire burnt gutted our house. We therefore applied for planning permission through Sean Wash, T.D., who was chairman of the County Council at the time. He failed, however, to gain planning permission for us, yet six months later a new neighbour came to the area, and had absolutely no difficulty in successfully gaining planning permission to build a bungalow forty yards away from us. At this time, Councillor Jim Barry was quoted as saying, "Mr X will never get planning permission in this area ever again!" Perceiving this to be blatant discrimination against a small Protestant Community, we contacted Taoiseach Charles Haughey who ensured that we obtained planning permission without further problems on a section 4 motion. I would like to say that our planning permission problems had no effect on our relationship with our new neighbours. In fact, we were very civil to each other and I gladly gave them use of my water while they were building their house. While they were building, Kieran and I had a verbal agreement that they could use my laneway to gain access to their property until they had finished building. After this, they would use their own entrance.
In 1990, after neighbours had finished building their house, and a year had expired, they began to be very abusive and arrogant claiming to own my laneway, and they ordered me off my property. Then followed a number of disturbances which included the following:
* Telephone lines were tampered with.. This can be confirmed by Councillor Breda Cass.
* Bank Statements and personal letters were steamed open and pushed through the letterbox crumpled and torn. This can be confirmed by the Gardai in Rathcoole and by the Bank of Ireland manager in Ratheoole, Paddy Ryan.
* Intimidating behaviour began such as cars screeching into our driveway at 3am with accompanying shouts of abuse. This was reported to the Gardai on a 999 call.
* Cars were used to block our access to and from church.
* Shots were fired over our house on a number of occasions; on one of them, my aerial was shot down. This was reported to the Gardai.
* Death threats were made concerning me and my family. These threats were recorded and are currently with the Gardai.
We would also like to point out here that my brother has also been a victim of violence in that his hay barn, house, car and mobile home was mysteriously burnt to the ground and told to get out of Brittas. (Telephone Call ).
Details of this are with the Gardai and Fire Department.
#18
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Posted 19 February 2004 - 12:30 AM
Londonderry Journal
Stop Atacking The Fountain
Feb 17 2004
THE REAL IRA in Derry have issued a call to young people to cease attacks on what they described as 'ordinary Protestants' in the Fountain area.
The group said: "While we will defend the right of anyone to attack the forces of British occupation we are calling on young people to stop attacking the Fountain.
"All they are doing here is attacking ordinary Protestants and this is something that we urge them to cease immediately."
It is believed that the republican group has approached several groups of young people in the Bishop Street and Bogside area to impress upon them the need to stop attacking the remaining unionist enclave on the west bank of the Foyle.
The Real IRA's call comes after a series of attacks on the Fountain in the last number of weeks.
There have been several petrol bombings of houses in the Fountain and when the PSNI showed up to investigate they too came under attack.
It is believed that the attacks on the Fountain were being used to entice the PSNI into the area.
Local public representatives were united in their condemnation of the attacks and called on young people to end their actions immediately.
In recent years attacks on the Fountain had decreased thanks to the actions of local community workers on the ground trying to prevent incidents.
After the most recent attacks DUP councillor William Hay said that he was convinced the attacks were a ruse to lure the PSNI into the area.
http://icderry.icnet...news/localnews/
Stop Atacking The Fountain
Feb 17 2004
THE REAL IRA in Derry have issued a call to young people to cease attacks on what they described as 'ordinary Protestants' in the Fountain area.
The group said: "While we will defend the right of anyone to attack the forces of British occupation we are calling on young people to stop attacking the Fountain.
"All they are doing here is attacking ordinary Protestants and this is something that we urge them to cease immediately."
It is believed that the republican group has approached several groups of young people in the Bishop Street and Bogside area to impress upon them the need to stop attacking the remaining unionist enclave on the west bank of the Foyle.
The Real IRA's call comes after a series of attacks on the Fountain in the last number of weeks.
There have been several petrol bombings of houses in the Fountain and when the PSNI showed up to investigate they too came under attack.
It is believed that the attacks on the Fountain were being used to entice the PSNI into the area.
Local public representatives were united in their condemnation of the attacks and called on young people to end their actions immediately.
In recent years attacks on the Fountain had decreased thanks to the actions of local community workers on the ground trying to prevent incidents.
After the most recent attacks DUP councillor William Hay said that he was convinced the attacks were a ruse to lure the PSNI into the area.
http://icderry.icnet...news/localnews/
#19
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- Group: Members
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Posted 19 February 2004 - 08:45 PM
Yes there is a fall in numbers.Many of the younger generation had moved away to mainland Britain in the early 1970s. But many today are now returning to Southern & Northern Ireland to live,rest and play. Many of the younger generations do not attend any church,hall or meetings to worship. The believe in God is also not popular with many yonger folk.
Most of the older have bible study/meetings in their home.
Wedding,funerals and special events will they venture out.
My local church sees a number of visitors in the summer months on the road to Counties Wicklow & Wexford.
Most of the older have bible study/meetings in their home.
Wedding,funerals and special events will they venture out.
My local church sees a number of visitors in the summer months on the road to Counties Wicklow & Wexford.
