[bluebear]

What a unified Ireland would mean for Protestants
Issue Date Sun, Dec 14 03

ALTHOUGH the recent electoral results in Northern Ireland may have made the possibility of a unified Ireland seem further away, the likelihood still remains.

If unification does arise, we can draw comparisons from the situation which the minority Protestant population found itself in after Independence. That is, the assimilation of that minority into the new country, governed by a body which was not the preference of the minority.

Through the democratic process this minority voice - which was strongly represented in the houses of the Oireachtas in the early days of the Free State - has gradually faded into the barely perceptible presence that exists today, in the form of Fine Gael TD Seymour Crawford and Green Party leader Trevor Sargent: a combination which hardly constitutes a unified representation of the Protestant voice.

It could be argued that there is no necessity for such representation today in the Republic; that the label of "West Brit" has been abolished and that the Irish are one, largely homogeneous, nation.

Ireland since Independence has evolved into a modern generic state where debates revolve around economics rather than religious issues. The make-up of the Dail today, where most parties are aligned to the centre and centre-right, doesn't leave much scope for a representative minority voice, apart from our penchant for electing independents on health tickets.

The constraints that Catholic Ireland put on the Protestant population have been removed. However, this has not come about overnight and the period between independence and the 1960s was one where the once strident Protestant voice in the houses of the Oireachtas gradually diminished.

In the years immediately after Independence, the minority population felt that their heritage was threatened. They had fears over property and were afraid of the new administration.

The first problem was the introduction of compulsory Irish, a measure by the new State to assert a sense of nationalism through language. Secondly, the minority feared the imposition of Catholicideals on them: the primary dread was that "Home Rule" would be "Rome Rule". These fears did not prove unfounded. Strict censorship laws, and bans on contraception and divorce quickly followed the introduction of Irish.

The response was the start of the "keep your head down" mentality: the feeling that what couldn't be changed must be endured quietly.

However, in the early years there were dominant voices in the chambers - representatives such as WB Yeats, Professor William Thrift and Jasper Wolfe. During the debate on compulsory Irish, Deputy Wolfe protested:

"I doubt if compelling people to learn is a good way of spreading the language; it is a 'The minority feared the imposition of Catholic ideals on them: the primary dread was that Home Rule would be Rome Rule'

very difficult thing to compel an Irishman to do anything."

But the fear was apparent that such protests would simply lead to them being labelled as West Britons.

The plan to ban divorce prompted huge objections from the Protestant pocket. Even though many were not personally in favour of the principle of divorce, they saw the introduction of the ban as an infringement of the liberties of the people. As the debate raged on, Yeats gave the Government a warning:

"If you show that this country, Southern Ireland, is going to be governed by Catholic ideas and by Catholic ideas alone, you will never get the North . . . You will put a wedge in the midst of this nation."

Reunification, infringement of liberties and the imposition of Catholic religious beliefs were the main targets of the Protestant deputies.

After the enactment of Bunreacht na hEireann in 1937 and the declaration of the Republic in 1948, the Protestant voice in the houses of the Oireachtas grew more and more subdued.

The university seats in the Dail, which had been primarily occupied by Protestants, were abolished and a Catholic State was firmly established. Catholic social teaching was firmly embedded in legislation: divorce was prohibited, as was contraception; censorship of publications was strict and people were sheltered from the outside world. The economic war with Britain and strict policies of protectionism succeeded in distancing the state even further from the United Kingdom.

During the Second World War, many more Protestants than Catholics joined the forces and lost their lives; the birth rate decreased even further and the population scattered throughout the country.

Yeats, Cooper, Thrift and Wolfe clearly and forcefully articulated the views of Protestants in the Oireachtas during this time. They argued for a more liberal approach, seeking to prevent the further alienation of the Protestant community north of the border. Ultimately, however, their best efforts were unsuccessful. The community did not occupy a pivotal position in decision-making and a narrow Catholic perspectiveprevailed.

With the possibility of a reunified country becoming less likely, the Northern Protestants seemed content in their majority position and were busily engaged in sowing the seeds of later Catholic and nationalist discontent. Arguments from Southern Protestant deputies against measures which could isolate the North became more and more infrequent.

Most of the distinctly Protestant representatives in the Dail eventually joined one of the main parties. Most chose Fine Gael, along with many of the minority voters who saw it as more pro-British than the other parties.

However with the declaration of the Republic in 1948, Cosgrave as leader of the country and the Fine Gael party succeeded in alienating much of the Protestant vote. At the time, Deputy Dockrell of Fine Gael said of the declaration and the break with the commonwealth:

"The union with the North was far distant, but this now makes the distance an astronomical one".

In the end, however, it seemed as though what Ireland had become was accepted by the Protestant minority. They had not lost land, privilege or power but did have to sacrifice some of their social freedoms.

Many of those social freedoms have since been reinstated: the bans on divorce and contraception have been lifted; the censorship laws have been relaxed significantly and the teaching of the Irish language has become the norm. Perhaps this is ultimately why there is no urgent need for a representative voice for the minority community in the Oireachtastoday.

If we ever do see the unification of Ireland, it is likely that the protestations from the Northern unionists will be significantly more strident than those of the Southern Protestants in the aftermath of independence.

Issues of contention are likely to centre more around the ethical dilemmas of stem cell research than compulsory Irish, as the thought of any administration imposing compulsory Irish on unionists today would be ludicrous.

The protestations may be more strident and the style more bullish, but Robinson and Donaldson can hardly be a match for Yeats in terms of eloquence.

Emma Blain

http://www.unison.ie...&issue_id=10170

[Stackeye]

Thats a history lesson, that all it is, there is no real protestant voice in the south cause there is no need for one, if you bring about a purely protestant part in the south it would achieve nothing but alienation, people dont care what religion you are down here, irishprod and jredmond will tell you that, i have never come across any discrimination against protestants, what you people up the north need to relieze is we dont have the trouble you have, we are all seen as irish people, although incidents did have here against protestats which was local, which i am ashamed of but there was no government agenda for it, its ashame you cant say the same about the northern ireland government.

[bluebear]

Your words apply to the Irish Republic now but certainly not on its foundation or even a few decades ago:-

Eamon de Valera 1930

"Justifying the sacking of a properly appointed librarian in Mayo, because, though highly qualified, she was a Protestant, de Valera argued in June 1930: "I say the people of Mayo in a county where I think 98% of the population is Catholic are justified in insisting on a Catholic librarian." He went on to widen the issue indeed, and asserted: "a Protestant doctor ought not to be appointed as a dispensary doctor in a mainly Catholic area."

Yeats in the Dail / Irish Parliament gave the Government a warning:

"If you show that this country, Southern Ireland, is going to be governed by Catholic ideas and by Catholic ideas alone, you will never get the North . . . You will put a wedge in the midst of this nation."

and as recently as 1984, the ex-Cabinet minister, Dr Noel Browne wrote: 'The south of Ireland is a Catholic Nationalist State, a state where no Protestant need apply.',

[Stackeye]

In 1930 a librarian got fired, 1930, I think it absolutely pales in comparision to the threatment of catholics in the North, how many protestants where killed by the gardai in the republic, was the republic ever accused of gerrymander or killing civil rights marchers - NO, that statement by noel browne was only due to the fact that the church stopped his mother and child bill from goin ahead, what evidence is there that in 1984 protestants where being cleansed, and i dont want quotes from people i want evidence,

a state where no Protestant need apply

Well thats crap, our first head of state was a protestant and he wasn't the last, catholics still cant become head of your state by being a monarch, the influence of the catholic church was bad for this country but it did not mean the extermination of the protestant people in the republic, it was uncomfortable i will admit for protestants in the start but there lives where not in danger, unlike the catholics in the north

[TÁL]

there is no real protestant voice in the south cause there is no need for one

Thats basically what it boils down too. Yes the Protestant population has declinded (inter-marriages, migration etc) but it's not like Protestants are oppressed, the tribal situation we have in the North doesn't exist in the South to any noticeable degree.

[scotick7]

Thats basically what it boils down too. Yes the Protestant population has declinded (inter-marriages, migration etc) but it's not like Protestants are oppressed, the tribal situation we have in the North doesn't exist in the South to any noticeable degree.

I completely agree. My best friend, my one real friend, growing up in the Irish midlands was protestant. It does seem to me that religion plays a far more central role in the creation and maintenance of present day unionist identity than it does in present day concepts of Irish nationality, for while the notion of a specifically Catholic Irishness has been very very strong since the 17th century(and remains so in some quarters in the 6 counties), this notion itself derived it's origin, strength and meaning from the overtly Protestant symbolism and self-identification of British imperialism. Since independence religion, and Catholicism in particular, has declined dramatically in importance as a marker of Irish national distinctiveness - though spiritual practice, regardless of it's external orthodox forms, is regarded by many as an important, albeit subjective and voluntary, aspect of civilised life. I would also remind everyone here that the Protestant community - as well as the Jewish community! - is growing again in size in the Republic.

I also wish to make a quick comment on citing Yeats - yes, he was indeed a proud member of Protestant Ireland, but his entire life he was engaged in the passionate study of what is often described as the occult - he was the member of an organisation of ritual magicians called the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and at one time harboured ambitions to found a Celtic order of some kind. He even produced, with his wife, a marvellously complex 'wheel of destiny', correlating different types of people with the changing phases of the moon, 'A Vision'. His poetry is steeped in allusions reflecting his interest in these fields. With all of this in mind, I wonder how many of his contemporaries (and how many of ours) in the Protestant community would have considered him a Christian, let alone a Protestant? Yeats of course, like his mentor Blake, always regarded himself as such.

[Irish_gallowglass]

Well actually there is a growing evangelical influence in Ireland. Sorry if this is a reason for opposing a political unification (which will happen btw) then I suggest instead of retreating in a monkish fashion and yelling NO! like Paisley I suggest you convert people.

[Kilsally]

Actually I think you will find the Free Presbterians are very active in the Republic, they do open air almost every week. They have a church in Cork and a few around the border counties. They are also involved with the Irish Gospel mission who have halls around Ireland and go to the World Ploghing Championships / Irish Ploughing champs every year with a stall.

[Irish_gallowglass]

So what is there to worry about? And anyways Protestant church attendance is going up in the 26 counties.

[Kilmarnock_FC_PUL]

As there will officially be no Protestants in the Republic by 2042 at current decline rates, any Protestant in the North would be a fool to throw themselves on the mercy of the Republic.

The Roman Catholic Church's 'Special Place' in the Republic combined with their 'Ne Temere' sectarian policy have helped to destroy the Protestant population, also disguised sectarianism like not employing people educated at Trinity College in Dublin and Sinn Fein/IRA's ethnic cleansing of Border counties have shown that there is only pain and sectarianism awaiting them in a United Ireland.

The rioting that stopped the 'Love Ulster' walk in Dublin was a good display of Republican love for their Protestant brother.